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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 0:01:12 GMT -5
Been listening to a lot of nas albums, making playlists from his catalogue, and it's made me realize...
Man, nas is often a terrible rapper. Don't get me wrong, illmatic is not at all overrated, it's one of the best rap albums ever made, and you got to be a real dumb dumb to think otherwise. And nas also makes crazy good guest appearances.
But he's got so many corny and/or boring songs in his albums. From I Am... onward, he's constantly got really, really bad songs like Dr. Knockboot in his albums. Remember the song on hip hop is dead, where he tries to do a chief wiggum voice for the whole song? I mean, wtf, hahaha.
Guest appearances aside, he's bad more often than good on his albums. And I'm not even talking about beat selection here, because that's a tired line of argument.
To be clear, I don't think the continual blunders on his later albums takes anything away from Illmatic and the best parts of It Was Written, or those godly guest appearances he has dropped over the years. His verse on Wu-Tang's Let My Biggas Live, from The W, deserves more attention.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 0:03:55 GMT -5
Going theough streets disciple right now. If I'm being very generous, there's maybe 8 good songs, and the rest is trash bin. That's better than biggie's life after death, but this is a bad double album.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 0:08:29 GMT -5
There's only two good songs on both God's Son and Ni**er. Three on Hip Hop Is Dead. Sheesh, what a rough discography.
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Post by eseph84 on Oct 18, 2021 7:17:25 GMT -5
you forgot to bash the blemish that is nas is coming produced by dre on it was written. horrid.
what about his m.i.a. performance on most of the firm album lol
but yo thats my boy nas ya talking bout. loll
cmon man theres a bunch of good songs on gods son. the one with lake, book of rhymes, thugs mansion, dance were classics for that time.
the stuff on def jam got pretty bad imo and didn't age well just like the roots albums.
besides life is good, that's a good album.
first lost tapes is a classic. don't forget that. def his best album besides illmatic somehow. (i've recently concluded this)
do u like braveheart party 88???
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Post by gino888 on Oct 18, 2021 8:46:52 GMT -5
pretty sure im on ignore from buck but atleast i didnt make this thread. alot of great rappers are guilty of this type of s**t specifically that knockboots song or oochie wally. its the desire and need to crossover again or for a first time that leaves a blemish on a catalog along with others and def a dark mark on ur career that nobody will forget. atleast hip hop dorks like us. but for example, wen a guy makes a "ladies" track or a b***h song it can come off incredible like "hows it goin down" from dmx. but in its place we get 20 oochie wally joints by guys where ur like what the f**k is this s**t. btw big pimpin>>>>>>>>>>>oochie wally
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 10:06:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I really don't care about the mainstream attempts, like Oochie Wally. This thread ain't about that grumpy Ollie type of reaction. It's about the bigger fault in NaS that never gets talked about: his risk taking as a rapper, not as a beat selector.
Listening to all these albums, NaS takes a lot of risks in terms of what he wants a song to be about, and how he goes about making that song. The chief wiggum song on Hip Hop is Dead is exhibit A. The song is called Who Killed It. The idea behind the song is that someone killed hip hop, and NaS is taking on the character of a detective to figure out who it was/is. Kinda cheesy, but okay maybe he could make a good song out of that. But, THEN, NaS takes the risk: he not only will take on the character of a detective, he'll also make his voice sound like some gumshoe detective. What makes this risk worse is that his attempt to sound like a detective ends up sounding more like Chief Wiggum from The Simpsons. It's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
And NaS takes risks like that ALL THE TIME in his songs.
I think taking on the character of being a gun was when NaS first tried something different, and it's a classic track. The problem is I think maybe NaS learned the wrong lessons from it, and he's ended up making songs like, Who Killed It, because of that.
Also, NaS is terrible at making songs aimed at women. That is, songs about love/sex. And I mean really terrible, and he tries on every album.
The thing about Jay-Z is he never takes the same risks that NaS takes. He's smarter than that, he doesn't take bad risks. The problem with Jay-Z is he doesn't take ANY risks, including showing his personality. Jay-Z is so unemotional in his music, we hardly know him at all through his music. He's started to open up more in recent albums, but he's incredibly stoic for someone as successful as he is.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 10:06:28 GMT -5
Eseph, I like Get Down and Made You Look and that's it on God's Son.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 10:09:19 GMT -5
On Streets Disciple, NaS has a song (that he horribly produced himself), where he simps after Rakim for a whole song. I get the original idea and why he'd think he should make it, especially considering how many people were comparing him to Rakim at that specific time and they were doing interviews together and all that, but it's really cringey. The tempo is also boringly slow, and it doesn't work at all, which is another recurring problem I'm noticing on NaS' post It Was Written albums: bad vocal tempo. The voice is an instrument and NaS often makes songs that have a musical tempo that force him to play his instrument poorly.
The Chief Wiggum song and this Rakim simp song are not mainstream/crossover attempts at all. They're some other kind of attempt. |
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 10:14:45 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I haven't listened to any of NaS' albums after Life is Good, so this thread isn't aimed at those projects. It's more about his work between I Am... and Ni**er.
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 18, 2021 12:41:30 GMT -5
Lol @ this thread.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 13:00:29 GMT -5
Buck, please respond in good faith. What'd you think?
None of this thread's content is coming from the other NaS thread, because I didn't read that thread, since it fell into a quicksand of circular fighting.
Genuinely interested in your response about my criticisms of the songs, "Unauthorized Biography of Rakim" and "Who Killed It".
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Post by junkee on Oct 18, 2021 13:07:13 GMT -5
I get where you coming from with this dude man. My mans loves him some Busta Rhymes and swears he's the GOAT. IMO Busta is bananas, but what separates to me is when comparing their best of their best. We debate this with a lot of rappers...put up they top 15-20 bangers next to each other and which one you gonna take? NaS got some of the dopest jointz ever so his is really hard to beat, but it's hard to argue with the wackness of a lot of his albums cuz I've skipped through a lot of them throughout the years. It's crazy when you be tryin to like some ish when it just isn't good cuz of what you've heard before. 25+ yrs in the game is saying something tho
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 18, 2021 13:13:27 GMT -5
It’s agt. I didn’t like Streets Disciple at all.
No issue with him giving props to Rakim though.
They interviewed Rakim about Nas when he was coming up and he showed nothing but love. Nas is the closest thing to Rakim.
I liked this dedication more
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 13:29:35 GMT -5
I think he's great for a lot of reasons; flow, voice, story telling ability, imagery and detail, different concepts.
I can't argue or convince anyone otherwise if you think he's boring or obnoxious though.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 14:18:19 GMT -5
I get where you coming from with this dude man. My mans loves him some Busta Rhymes and swears he's the GOAT. IMO Busta is bananas, but what separates to me is when comparing their best of their best. We debate this with a lot of rappers...put up they top 15-20 bangers next to each other and which one you gonna take? NaS got some of the dopest jointz ever so his is really hard to beat, but it's hard to argue with the wackness of a lot of his albums cuz I've skipped through a lot of them throughout the years. It's crazy when you be tryin to like some ish when it just isn't good cuz of what you've heard before. 25+ yrs in the game is saying something tho I agree with your comment. Like I said above, NaS' best work is undeniably good. If we're just looking at an artist's best work, then, yeah, he's absolutely amazing. However, the premise of this thread is that when we focus on his entire body of work, creating great songs is not the norm in NaS' catalogue. The norm/default setting/whatever in NaS' career is bad risks amounting to bad songs, and every once and a while, he'll put out a track as great as NaS is Like, but it comes pretty rarely. Especially for someone that's so highly regarded. RZA recently said on some podcast he thinks NaS is the best rapper, outside of Wu-Tang, and going through NaS' discog, I can't agree at all. |
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 14:23:44 GMT -5
I think he's great for a lot of reasons; flow, voice, story telling ability, imagery and detail, different concepts. I can't argue or convince anyone otherwise if you think he's boring or obnoxious though. I agree with all of those things in NaS' work, but only in his really good songs. Go listen to his album, I Am..., and notice how bad all of those things are, outside of NaS is Like.
The flow is off, because a lot of the beats force an awkward cadence. The voice, fine, whatever. The storytelling, imagery, and concepts are honestly very corny. See: the corniness of Dr. Knockboot, the awkwardness of Money is My b***h, etc. etc. etc. Go listen to the song, My Country, on Stillmatic. That's a TERRIBLE chorus.
Again, I'm not denying the greatness of his highlight songs. Yeah, I Am... really, really sucks, but NaS is Like is still a monster of a good track. But I'm not talking about NaS is Like; I'm talking about all the other songs on I Am... In other words, I'm talking about the 95% of songs that NaS makes, which are surprisingly bad. Since we only pay attention to his highlights, I forgot how about the majority of his songs really are.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 14:27:10 GMT -5
And, yes, I understand the whole backstory with I Am..., Nastradamus, and Lost Tapes, where the bootlegging killed the double album project's plans, and all the best tracks ended up on Lost Tapes, so it could be argued that it's unfair to judge I Am... and Nastradamus. I get all that. BUT: Stillmatic, God's Son, Streets Disciple, etc. consistently have the same problems as those two albums. If all those later albums were amazing, it'd be easier to excuse the poor quality of I Am... and Nastradamus as some sort of circumstantial bad luck. But they are not outliers. They're demonstrably the norm.
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 18, 2021 14:27:44 GMT -5
Nas’ rapping ability is unmatched.
Out of the hundreds and hundreds of songs he’s made, there are very very few where the problem is his rapping.
He suffered because of mediocre to wack beats. I’ve said it here multiple times. “What the f**k is Nas doing? Albums trash, the beats suck.”
That problem’s been corrected since linking up with Hit Boy.
Now it’s the end of 2021 and Nas is hands down the best rapper alive at the moment.
That’s all there is to it. He’s not MY favorite rapper but I’m not gonna act like he ain’t the best emcee on the planet. He is.
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 18, 2021 14:38:10 GMT -5
I mean, it seems like we're getting to an agree-to-disagree thing, which is fine. To each his own. I knew my opinion wasn't going to be popular when I made this thread, but debating this kind of stuff is why I come here.
Regardless, it sounds like I got to check out his albums after Life is Good. I think I skimmed through Nasir when it came out, but can't remember it at all, so gotta revisit, and then check out for the first time his other recent projects, such as KD 1&2. |
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 18, 2021 14:43:11 GMT -5
Not too many rappers can rhyme like this.
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 18, 2021 14:56:12 GMT -5
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Post by AEOKQ on Oct 18, 2021 15:41:36 GMT -5
I never really cared for his music.
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Post by eseph84 on Oct 19, 2021 10:22:56 GMT -5
Regardless, it sounds like I got to check out his albums after Life is Good. I think I skimmed through Nasir when it came out, but can't remember it at all, so gotta revisit, and then check out for the first time his other recent projects, such as KD 1&2. i would love your opinions on those after lig for sure. i even liked the nasir ep enough to keep in the collection and i hate post grad kanye big jaded nas stan tho so... lol |
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Post by eseph84 on Oct 19, 2021 10:23:56 GMT -5
i love car 85 on kd1 and theres a couple joints for sure on lost tapes 2!
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Post by buckthadevil on Oct 19, 2021 11:23:10 GMT -5
No love for Ultra Black?
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Post by autistismanonymous7 on Oct 19, 2021 12:00:00 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that this is a buck bait thread?
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Post by yodapluto on Oct 19, 2021 12:23:26 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that this is a buck bait thread? Nah. |
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Post by gino888 on Oct 19, 2021 17:44:34 GMT -5
of course it isnt. and cuz thers well structured essays on why he sucks instead of coffin nail one liners buck doesnt give yoda a hard time. real cool. and u realize in this era and especially 2021 his personal affairs like piledriver child support is infinitly more exciting then songs hes making at 55 yrs old over hit boy beats. and u like the old nas buck, how are u giving his new s**t a pass? this is def the equivalent of clockworx always praising eminem wellllll after he was done.
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Post by gino888 on Oct 19, 2021 18:15:16 GMT -5
and yoda how does it not infuriate u the desire to appeal to the mainstream especially at his age as well as other legends wen 1, they have ne producer they want at ther disposal, 2, we kno as fans what would work but somehow they dont (and rappers are so intelligent lol) and 3, for as much as the industry mainstream and ughh but specifically mainstream is sucking off griselda for ther "sound" why not use those producers?! wtf? u tell me az or nas or raekwon over daringer or camo monk or nichalas craven or whoever the f**k new guy wouldnt blow minds and be like a finalllllly moment for the fans? u tell me they dont kno that s**t? so yea wen at 50 some yrs old ur trying to appeal to 18 yr olds and u belly flop it does piss me off cuz u can write ur own ticket at this point with new guys or old cuz now u can afford them. nas does suck and so does every other legend doing this bull f**kin s**t
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Post by gino888 on Oct 19, 2021 18:19:28 GMT -5
and remember that scene in the stretch and bob doc where nas puts the headphones on and listens with stretch armstrong and the beat is dusty gold and he goes "do u still make beats" eyebrows raised and everything. worldwide butt sniff fans got ther panties in a bunch cuz they thought they just thought nas may not make a turd next time. dude f**kin knows, he totally knows what to pick. but that desire to be relevant and cool and s**t is stronger. lol ur kids are older then the a*****es ur trying to appeal to d**khead
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